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debian-devel-digest Digest Volume 2011 : Issue 156
Today's Topics:
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Scott Kitterman <[email protected] ]
Re: Potential memory leaks reported [ sean finney <[email protected]> ]
Re: Potential memory leaks reported [ Adrian von Bidder <avbidder@fortytw ]
Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/def [ Tollef Fog Heen <[email protected]> ]
Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/def [ Stefano Zacchiroli <[email protected] ]
Re: Potential memory leaks reported [ Wouter Verhelst <[email protected]> ]
Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/def [ sean finney <[email protected]> ]
Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/def [ sean finney <[email protected]> ]
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <pochu@debia ]
Bug#616071: ITP: python-oejskit -- p [ Anders Hammarquist <[email protected]> ]
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Paul Wise <[email protected]> ]
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Holger Levsen <[email protected] ]
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Jan Hauke Rahm <[email protected]> ]
Re: potential MBF: first alternate d [ Shachar Shemesh <[email protected] ]
Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/def [ Simon McVittie <[email protected]> ]
Re: Call for projects for Google Sum [ Adrian von Bidder <avbidder@fortytw ]
Re: Call for projects for Google Sum [ Bernd Zeimetz <[email protected]> ]
Re: Call for projects for Google Sum [ Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> ]
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 23:24:24 -0500
From: Scott Kitterman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;
charset="iso-8859-15"
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On Monday, February 28, 2011 10:05:22 am Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> piuparts in master-slave mode currently cannot test packages which first
> alternate depends is not available in main, ie the secvpn package depends
> on "adduser, bc, ssh, ppp, timeout | coreutils (>= 7.5-1), sudo" and
> timeout is only available in lenny and etch, thus piuparts cannot test
> secvpn in squeeze, wheezy and sid. That's a bug in piuparts.
>
> Another popular example is a depends on "apache | apache2"...
>
> So I think it's also a bug in those packages, of which there are more then
> 100 but less than 200.
> (To my regret I have to admit there is another bug in piuparts and
> http://piuparts.debian.org/sid/state-dependency-does-not-exist.html lists a
> few packages incorrectly.)
>
> But, anyway, I believe that the first depends of an alternate depends
> relation should be available in main and propose to file bugs about this.
>
> Do you agree this warrants a mass bug filing? I couldn't find this written
> out in policy so these bugs would be wishlist, which probably would make
> them not warrant a mass bug filing...
>
> Comments?
It seems to me not worth a mass bug filing. This doesn't seem like something
that would affect user's systems. Is there a rationale for imposing this
ordering other than puiparts can't deal with it?
Scott K
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:43:39 +0100
From: sean finney <[email protected]>
To: Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Potential memory leaks reported by Valgrind against some
frequently used commands
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 08:38:42PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 03/01/2011 06:19 AM, ximalaya wrote:
>> BTW, I ever tried on Redhat Linux 9, no such problem.
>>
>
> This is the interesting part. Is RH keeping their patches, or are
> upstream and other distros just not determining them worthwhile?
given that RH9 is like what, 10 years old, i'd think that it's just as
likely that the utilities just weren't leaky at the time.
sean
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:52:53 +0100
From: Adrian von Bidder <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Potential memory leaks reported by Valgrind against some frequently used commands
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Hi!
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 03.38:42 Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 03/01/2011 06:19 AM, ximalaya wrote:
> > Hi all,
>=20
> [snip]
>=20
> > BTW, I ever tried on Redhat Linux 9, no such problem.
>=20
> This is the interesting part. Is RH keeping their patches, or are
> upstream and other distros just not determining them worthwhile?
Or is it an eglibc <> libc issue? (Not sure what libc RH is using.)
=2D- vbi
=2D-=20
Vertrauen ist gut. Anwalt ist saugeil.
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Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:32:07 +0100
From: Tollef Fog Heen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
]] Raphael Geissert
| Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
| > I think insserv makes it even more complicated, since I believe services
| > might
| > be pulled in, even if they're disabled. (Or it might be that insserv
| > just throws its hands into the air and tells you it doesn't know how to
| > do something the next time update-rc.d is run.)
|
| No, it doesn't.
Oh, indeed, it just ignores the fact that a required service is disabled
without warning.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:41:18 +0100
From: Stefano Zacchiroli <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 06:16:06PM +0000, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > Do other distro's use service for this?
> > What's the reason update-rc.d is limited to maintainer scripts?
> =20
> No, they use chkconfig.
Ironically, the last paragraph of chkconfig description reads:
In Debian, there are several tools with similar functionality, but
users coming from other Linux distributions will find the tools in
this package more familiar.
without telling which those "several tools" are. According to this
thread, the recommended tool among them is "mv" (in the hope that the
sysadm knows by heart that they have to run insserv afterwards).
Cheers.
--=20
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela .......| ..: |.......... -- C. Adams
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Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:17:54 +0100
From: Wouter Verhelst <[email protected]>
To: Ron Johnson <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Potential memory leaks reported by Valgrind against some
frequently used commands
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 08:38:42PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 03/01/2011 06:19 AM, ximalaya wrote:
> >Hi all,
> [snip]
> >
> >BTW, I ever tried on Redhat Linux 9, no such problem.
> >
>
> This is the interesting part. Is RH keeping their patches, or are
> upstream and other distros just not determining them worthwhile?
Not really. The interesting part is 'was this done with the same version
of valgrind?'
Note that valgrind has a feature to blacklist false positives and issues
(like this one) that don't matter at all.
--
The biometric identification system at the gates of the CIA headquarters
works because there's a guard with a large gun making sure no one is
trying to fool the system.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/01/biometrics.html
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:21:27 +0100
From: sean finney <[email protected]>
To: Olaf van der Spek <[email protected]>, [email protected],
Russ Allbery <[email protected]>,
Raphael Geissert <[email protected]>
Cc: Steve Langasek <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 08:30:24PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> > time the package is upgraded. i mean, it's not even that great for
> > maintainer scripts, as evidenced by the total inconsistency for how
> > developers are managing enabling/disabling of their services.
>
> Isn't that handled by DH for simple cases?
i don't think the simple cases are the problems here. the problems arise
on the maintainer side when they want to do anything different from the
standard boilerplate dh stuff, like for example conditionally enable/disable
a service. i actually attempted to do this The Right Way once with nsca,
and it was really hard and involved lots of querying of invoke-rc.d.
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 11:58:44PM +0100, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
> The "short term" issue is figuring out if the current practice of
> DONT_DISABLE_ENABLEMENT=false and friends in /etc/default is something
> we want to keep doing.
i would guess that the numbers are already overwhelmingly in favor of
abandoning this practice, if it were reasonably easy and straightforward
to do.
> The "long term" issue is having a toolset, for the end user, for
> starting and stopping services, enabling and disabling services when
> booting, installing and upgrading, and setting a global policy for what
> the initial status of an installed service should be.
i'd agree with Russ that doing this sooner rather than later would
actually accelerate the abandonment of the practice.. that is i don't
think most people are doing it because they think "this is how it should
be done", but rather "i can't find a better way to do it".
> A RHEL service can be started manually, but will not be started at
> system boot unless explicitly configured to do so with "chkconfig".
and in our case it's renaming a symlink with sysv init, but i find
it extremely irritating that we can't just provide a damn wrapper
for that on out of the box installs so debian works like every other
linux system out there with a reasonably sane chkconfig and/or service
interface.
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 09:24:52PM -0600, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> > So what *is* the proper UI?
>
> Interesting that everyone talks about update-rc.d but it appears that nobody
> has read its documentation:
>
> > A common system administration error is to delete the links with
<snip>
>
> That means:
> # mv /etc/rc2.d/S??apache2 /etc/rc2.d/K00apache2
> # insserv # this bit is not documented, it seems
>
> And that's it, apache2 won't be started on runlevel 2.
and that's pretty much how it works on every other linux/unix like
(sysv anyway, modulo changing some paths) system out there, at least
under the hood.
...but that's not an interface, that's an implementation detail. a very much
nonzero number of people are very confused when coming to debian because
the tools that they've come to learn and use on other linux systems aren't
present, and when they google or ask on support channels they're given a mixture
of sometimes conflicting answers.
i spoke with steve briefly on irc this morning and he mentioned that there
were some (perhaps-unpublished?) notes from the DebConf BoF on init systems,
does anyone still have a copy of those? is there any other central place
where this stuff is being discussed?
sean
--
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:31:39 +0100
From: sean finney <[email protected]>
To: Stefano Zacchiroli <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
hi zack,
On Wed, Mar 02, 2011 at 09:41:18AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> without telling which those "several tools" are. According to this
> thread, the recommended tool among them is "mv" (in the hope that the
> sysadm knows by heart that they have to run insserv afterwards).
there's a few packages that provide the same or similar kind of
functionality, like sysv-rc-conf, bum, and rcconf. but none of
these are anything remotely "standard" in terms of what people
would be used to seeing, they'd have to find the package names
and install them and learn how to use them, etc (and it may be
that even with said utilities that they still have to run
insserv, d'oh)...
sean
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:53:46 +0000
From: Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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On 02/03/11 04:24, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> It seems to me not worth a mass bug filing. This doesn't seem like something
> that would affect user's systems. Is there a rationale for imposing this
> ordering other than puiparts can't deal with it?
If you have non-free enabled and install a package from main, it should install
the dependencies from main. So you should have e.g. "rar | rar-nonfree" instead
of the other way round.
Cheers,
Emilio
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:57:19 +0100
From: Anders Hammarquist <[email protected]>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <[email protected]>
Subject: Bug#616071: ITP: python-oejskit -- python driven _javascript_ unit testing
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Anders Hammarquist <[email protected]>
* Package name : python-oejskit
Version : 0.9.0
Upstream Author : Open End AB, Samuele Pedroni <[email protected]>
* URL : http://pypi.python.org/pypi/oejskit
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: python
Description : python driven _javascript_ unit testing
jskit contains infrastructure and in particular a py.test plugin to enable
running tests for _javascript_ code inside browsers directly using py.test as
the test driver. Running inside the browsers comes with some speed cost, on
the other hand it means for example the code is tested against the real-
world DOM implementations.
The approach also enables to write integration tests such that the
_javascript_ code is tested against server-side Python code mocked as
necessary. Any server-sideframework that can already be exposed through
WSGI (or for which a subset of WSGI can be written to accommodate the jskit
own needs) can play along.
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:45:59 +0800
From: Paul Wise <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you have non-free enabled and install a package from main, it should install
> the dependencies from main. So you should have e.g. "rar | rar-nonfree" instead
> of the other way round.
non-free stuff shouldn't be in main depends at all IMO, even as an alternative.
--
bye,
pabs
http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:51:01 +0100
From: Holger Levsen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Hi,
On Mittwoch, 2. M=C3=A4rz 2011, Paul Wise wrote:
> non-free stuff shouldn't be in main depends at all IMO, even as an
> alternative.
I (somewhat) agree.
And I think non-existing stuff is worse than non-free...
But, I can see how it can be useful (users, derivatives), thus I think it j=
ust=20
shouldn't be the first alternative.
cheers,
Holger
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Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:53:53 +0100
From: Jan Hauke Rahm <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, Mar 02, 2011 at 11:51:01AM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mittwoch, 2. März 2011, Paul Wise wrote:
> > non-free stuff shouldn't be in main depends at all IMO, even as an
> > alternative.
>
> I (somewhat) agree.
>
> And I think non-existing stuff is worse than non-free...
>
> But, I can see how it can be useful (users, derivatives), thus I think it just
> shouldn't be the first alternative.
+1
--
.''`. Jan Hauke Rahm <[email protected]> www.jhr-online.de
: :' : Debian Developer www.debian.org
`. `'` Member of the Linux Foundation www.linux.com
`- Fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe www.fsfe.org
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 13:03:37 +0200
From: Shachar Shemesh <[email protected]>
To: Paul Wise <[email protected]>
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: potential MBF: first alternate depends not available in main
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
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On 02/03/11 12:45, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> If you have non-free enabled and install a package from main, it should install
>> the dependencies from main. So you should have e.g. "rar | rar-nonfree" instead
>> of the other way round.
>>
> non-free stuff shouldn't be in main depends at all IMO, even as an alternative.
>
>
Then please state what you think should happen in the case pointed out
by Emilio.
Shachar
--
Shachar Shemesh
Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:37:25 +0000
From: Simon McVittie <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: enable/disable flags in /etc/default
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
(Cross-posting to d-d-games for discussion of the Quake III-based games)
On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 at 15:20:52 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Speaking as someone who has a few of the DONT_NOT_DISABLE_SERVICE
> variables in some of my packages
Speaking as another implementor of similar variables: I added them in
openarena-server, quake3-server and tremulous-server (game dedicated servers),
with the servers disabled by default, for these reasons:
* openarena currently Depends: openarena-server for common game logic that
both need; in principle I could add a 5MB openarena-common and make
openarena-server only contain scripts, or add an openarena-server-run
only containing the init script, but I didn't really fancy another trip
through the NEW queue...
* running a Quake III (-based) server from an init script is somewhat less
capable than running it in screen from a cron @reboot job or something (which
is documented as an alternative in README.Debian), since you lose the
ability for an admin to enter console commands in the running server
* I believe it's reasonably common to run several server instances on the
same machine (e.g. for different game types or map cycles), which isn't at
all straightforward from an init script
The other good option I've seen for packages where the init script isn't
necessarily the preferred way to run the server is to split the package,
so the server binary and supporting files are in one binary package (e.g.
dnsmasq-base, git-daemon, mysql-server-core-5.1) and the init glue is in
another (dnsmasq, git-daemon-run, mysql-server-5.1).
In that arrangment, alternative setups (dnsmasq run internally by libvirt-bin,
a git-daemon for occasional use run from inetd, mysql run internally by KDE)
can depend on the package containing the actual server, and not the one with
the init scripts. This does lead to proliferation of tiny packages and a
larger Packages file, though...
S
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:57:34 +0100
From: Adrian von Bidder <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Call for projects for Google Summer of Code 2011
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Wednesday 02 March 2011 10.43:44 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> Debian is applying as mentoring organization to the Google Summer of Code
> (GSoC) this year
Dealing with the init scripts / service enable / disable mess. See current=
=20
d-devel discussion.
As much a discussion / social skills project as a coding project, so I'm no=
t=20
sure if GSoC is the right place.
Or do it as a pure coding project, implement a proper set of tools, but the=
n=20
it's a question if it will be adopted into Debian in the end, which would=20
mean wasted effort.
(And please don't start discussion of the actual problem here, there's the=
=20
other thread for this...)
cheers
=2D- vbi
=2D-=20
Jetzt ist der Herr Bush Pr=E4sident, und weil ihm wieder langweilig ist,
will er endlich den Saddam loswerden. Der Herr Bush hat n=E4mlich keine
Praktikantin.
-- http://bush.d0t.de/
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Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:16:04 +0100
From: Bernd Zeimetz <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Call for projects for Google Summer of Code 2011
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 03/02/2011 01:57 PM, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 March 2011 10.43:44 Ana Guerrero wrote:
>
>> Debian is applying as mentoring organization to the Google Summer of Code
>> (GSoC) this year
>
> Dealing with the init scripts / service enable / disable mess. See current
> d-devel discussion.
What about a project which prepares a migration to
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd ?
--
Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer
http://bzed.de http://www.debian.org
GPG Fingerprints: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 14:19:26 +0100
From: Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Call for projects for Google Summer of Code 2011
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Bernd Zeimetz <[email protected]> (02/03/2011):
> What about a project which prepares a migration to
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd ?
yay for portability.
KiBi.
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